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[lykomancer]

Women's Liberation Through...Submission to Men. (Including a masculine God.)

NO. RELIGION: YOU'RE DOIN' IT WRONG.

Comments

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Bah.

Bah -

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Let's go back to getting arranged marriages where we're chattel and can be beat and it's okay, WHY DON'T WE.

[maxxim-huzzah.livejournal.com]

*reads article*

...

God, give me the strength to KICK SOME ASS. UGH, I just wanted to bleach my eyes of the self-righteousness coming off these people. Wonder if Mary Kassian doesn't realize that her very ability to speak up and out against feminism is a fruit of feminism?

It's coincidence that I found this article about the Mars Hill Church of Seattle just yesterday. In both articles, they said they didn't want "wimpy" Christianity. (Or as Driscoll from Mars Hill says, 'chickified, limp wrist, queer Jesus'.)

What is their beef? Is it they're afraid of homosexuals? That's the only stereotype I know of gays that everyone seems to know. They want no masculine women or feminine men, or even the hint of it happening in their church. Personally, this is the best time to be alive outside of the Greek and Roman empires; sexuality is expressed in so many ways, and I want to be a part of it!!

I've struggled so long to be comfortable with my sexuality and getting out from all the GUILT GUILT GUILT about everything, that this submission shit just makes me angry all over again. >:E

edited for changing KISS ASS to KICK ASS. XD

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

They're cowards. They don't want to face the huge, diverse, inscrutable world...

["Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?

Tell me, if you understand.

Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone- while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther; 'here is where your proud waves halt'?

"Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?

The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.

The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken.

"Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep?

Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death?

Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.]


...that their response is to crawl into a shell. And, because misery wants company, they want to drag everyone else down with them.

Jesus didn't talk about nuclear families-- he said, "Whoever does not hate their mother and father cannot follow me." (And extended families were/are the norm in the middle east, anyway.) Jesus talked about giving all of one's belongings to the poor, not being Beaver-Cleaver middle class. Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor."

And Christ! (so to speak...), even Paul wrote that in Christ there is no male and female. Two of the early deacons of the church were female.


You want strong, scary theology? Sell all of your belongings. Give to charity. Take up the cross. Turn over the moneychangers' tables in the Temple. Denounce injustice. Thump the Bible on the desks of polluting CEOs and torturing CIA directors. Stand for something you believe in.

[maxxim-huzzah.livejournal.com]

"You want strong, scary theology? Sell all of your belongings. Give to charity. Take up the cross. Turn over the moneychangers' tables in the Temple. Denounce injustice. Thump the Bible on the desks of polluting CEOs and torturing CIA directors. Stand for something you believe in."

I know. It never occurs to most bible-thumping Christians that THEY could ever be in the wrong, or that they ever become the very Pharisees and false prophets Jesus warned his listeners about. (I hesitate to even say followers, because the ideas Jesus said aren't THAT new).

Paul was an ass in that he didn't really want women to be leaders of the church, much as he acknowledged them in his letters. Most of the 'traditional' teachings of the (Catholic) church are derived from his letters.

I've become wary of even my prayers. How much of those official creeds is a formalized ritual designed to 'preserve the Church' as institution? Whether Roman or Protestant, it's always been made of human members. To be able to say "what you ARE makes you unfit to do anything in this world" is insulting for everyone involved, including God.

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

Personally, I find Paul to be a dick for other reasons-- like stealing money from his own churches, for example. Many of the lines about the place of women in the church aren't Paul, see; they're in letters which the majority of scholars don't believe were really written by Paul and/or are interpolations by later copiers and translators.

It wasn't Paul...but it's still treated like canon even though it isn't. It's a little like treating Naruto fillers to be canon. Blah. No.


To be able to say "what you ARE makes you unfit to do anything in this world" is insulting for everyone involved, including God.

*shakes head* That's not my theology, and I wouldn't have anything to do with anyone who really believed that garbage. Official creeds are interesting (to me) solely for their history: the issues they were addressing, the particular language, etc.

[maxxim-huzzah.livejournal.com]

Really, the Paul in those letters wasn't the Paul? That is definitely news to me...and needs to be news given to the laity who insist on it being unerring truth.

It wasn't Paul...but it's still treated like canon even though it isn't. It's a little like treating Naruto fillers to be canon. Blah. No.

*dies laughing*

I feel lately like I'm just out of high school again, wondering WTF do I mean when I say these prayers or say "I'm a (lapsed) Catholic". Still, the old "BELIEVE IT OR BE DAMNED" surge comes back every time I call BS on Christian mouthpieces. (No way could they speak for everyone.)

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

Paul only wrote, uh... Galatians, Romans... Fuck it. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_Epistles#The_undisputed_epistles) to the rescue.

* Romans
* First Corinthians
* Second Corinthians
* Galatians
* Philippians
* First Thessalonians
* Philemon

"The name "undisputed" epistles represents the general scholarly consensus asserting that Paul authored each letter. However, even the most undisputed of letters, such as Galatians, have found critics. Moreover, the unity of the letters is sometimes questioned. First and Second Corinthians have garnered particular suspicion, with some scholars, among them Edgar Goodspeed and Norman Perrin, supposing one or both texts as we have them today are actually amalgamations of multiple individual letters. There remains considerable discussion as to the presence of possible significant interpolations, among them Romans 1:18-2:29, 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1 and Galatians 1:13-2:14. However, such textual corruption is difficult to detect and even more so to verify, leaving little agreement as to the extent of the epistles' integrity."


To see how clear this can be, read Galatians and then read Colossians. Totally different writing style.



It's ok. Doubt is good. Faith is built on doubt and questioning. All of the great scholars and theologians have doubted and decided that they didn't know everything. The "answer" isn't the end; the question is.

[maxxim-huzzah.livejournal.com]

Wai! Thank you for the link (and I'm definitely going to read Galatians and Colossians back to back).

All of the great scholars and theologians have doubted and decided that they didn't know everything. The "answer" isn't the end; the question is. *sigh* I think sometimes I easily swing from one end of the pendulum to the other, and end up thinking "oh hey, they did have a good grasp of God back in the day". I'd say holding the two tensions of "agreeing to disagree" with the parts of the Bible I thought carefully about and rejected, take so much energy.

Seminary school would probably have made me implode!

It's good to see you online, Lyko-chan! ♥

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

Seminary ends up making most people explode at some point, which is why they insist on making the students take mental evaluations every few months. :D

You, too!

[ozen.livejournal.com]

The more I hear about evangelical insanity in the US, the more I wonder when they're just going to drink the fucking kool aid and get it over with. Fo' rizzle, yo.